Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/21/1999 01:11 PM House RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
         HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                   April 21, 1999                                                                                               
                     1:11 p.m.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Jerry Sanders, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative John Harris                                                                                                      
Representative Ramona Barnes                                                                                                    
Representative Jim Whitaker                                                                                                     
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Carl Morgan                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Alan Austerman                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Board of Fisheries                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Virgil L. Umphenour - North Pole                                                                                           
     Grant J. Miller - Sitka                                                                                                    
     Dan K. Coffey - Anchorage                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 116                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the Board of Agriculture and Conservation, to                                                               
the agricultural revolving loan fund, to the disposal of state                                                                  
agricultural land, and to the Alaska Natural Resource Conservation                                                              
and Development Board; and providing for an effective date."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 104                                                                                                              
"An Act revising the procedures and authority of the Alaska                                                                     
Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission, the Board of Fisheries, and                                                              
the Department of Fish and Game to establish a moratorium on                                                                    
participants or vessels, or both, participating in certain                                                                      
fisheries; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
(* First public hearing)                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 116                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: BOARD OF AGRICULTURE AND CONSERVATION                                                                              
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) JAMES, Harris                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/26/99       324     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 2/26/99       324     (H)  RESOURCES, FINANCE                                                                                  
 3/10/99       418     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): HARRIS                                                                                
 4/14/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 4/14/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 4/21/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 104                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: ENTRY MORATORIA ON PARTICIPANTS/VESSELS                                                                            
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) HUDSON, Austerman                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/19/99       260     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 2/19/99       260     (H)  FSH, RES                                                                                            
 3/08/99               (H)  FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 3/08/99               (H)  MOVED CSHB 104(FSH)                                                                                 
 3/08/99               (H)  MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                         
 3/10/99       408     (H)  FSH RPT  CS(FSH) NT 4DP                                                                             
 3/10/99       408     (H)  DP: KAPSNER, MORGAN, WHITAKER, HUDSON                                                               
 3/10/99       408     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (F&G)                                                                              
 3/10/99       408     (H)  REFERRED TO RES                                                                                     
 4/14/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 4/14/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 4/21/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, Appointee                                                                                                     
   to the Board of Fisheries                                                                                                    
878 Lynnwood Way                                                                                                                
North Pole, Alaska  99705                                                                                                       
Telephone:  (907) 456-3885                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of                                                                      
                    Fisheries.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
GRANT MILLER, Appointee                                                                                                         
   to the Board of Fisheries                                                                                                    
P.O. Box 6097                                                                                                                   
Sitka, Alaska  99835                                                                                                            
Telephone:  (907) 747-7870                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of                                                                      
                    Fisheries.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DAN COFFEY, Appointee                                                                                                           
   to the Board of Fisheries                                                                                                    
207 East Northern Lights Boulevard, Suite 200                                                                                   
Anchorage, Alaska  99503                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 274-3385                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of                                                                      
                    Fisheries.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SUE ASPELUND, Executive Director                                                                                                
Cordova District Fishermen United                                                                                               
P.O. Box 939                                                                                                                    
Cordova, Alaska  99574                                                                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 424-3447                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified about imbalance on Board of                                                                       
                    Fisheries and spoke in opposition to Mr.                                                                    
                    Umphenour's reappointment.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
RUSSELL NELSON                                                                                                                  
P.O. Box 161                                                                                                                    
Dillingham, Alaska  99576                                                                                                       
Telephone:  (907) 842-2370                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of reappointment of Mr.                                                                  
                    Umphenour, Mr. Miller and Mr. Coffey to the                                                                 
                    Board of Fisheries.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DALE BONDURANT                                                                                                                  
31864 Moonshine                                                                                                                 
Soldotna, Alaska  99669                                                                                                         
Telephone:  (907) 262-0818                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of reappointment of Mr.                                                                  
                    Umphenour, Mr. Miller and Mr. Coffey to the                                                                 
                    Board of Fisheries.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ROY ASHENFELTER                                                                                                                 
P.O. Box 1969                                                                                                                   
Nome, Alaska  99762                                                                                                             
Telephone:  (907) 443-5730                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of Kawerak, Incorporated,                                                               
                    in support of reappointment of Mr. Umphenour                                                                
                    to the Board of Fisheries; testified on own                                                                 
                    behalf in support of reappointment of Mr.                                                                   
                    Umphenour and Mr. Coffey but was neutral on                                                                 
                    Mr. Miller's.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
JERRY McCUNE                                                                                                                    
211 Fourth Street                                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 586-2820                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as Copper River fisherman that Mr.                                                                
                    Umphenour is biased, Mr. Coffey has done a                                                                  
                    great job, and Mr. Miller is organized and                                                                  
                    represents commercial fishing interests on the                                                              
                    Board of Fisheries; requested one more person                                                               
                    on the board who understands mixed-stock                                                                    
                    fisheries.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TERRY HOEFFERLE                                                                                                                 
Bristol Bay Native Association                                                                                                  
P.O. Box 310                                                                                                                    
Dillingham, Alaska  99576                                                                                                       
Telephone:  (907) 842-5257                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of Bristol Bay Native                                                                   
                    Association in support of reappointment of Mr.                                                              
                    Umphenour, Mr. Miller and Mr. Coffey to the                                                                 
                    Board of Fisheries.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REUBEN HANKE                                                                                                                    
P.O. Box 624                                                                                                                    
Soldotna, Alaska  99669                                                                                                         
Telephone:  (907) 262-5097                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of reappointment of Mr.                                                                
                    Umphenour, Mr. Miller and Mr. Coffey to the                                                                 
                    Board of Fisheries.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
JOE HANES                                                                                                                       
P.O. Box 3132                                                                                                                   
Soldotna, Alaska  99669                                                                                                         
Telephone:  (907) 262-6388                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of reappointment of Mr.                                                                
                    Umphenour, Mr. Miller and Mr. Coffey to the                                                                 
                    Board of Fisheries.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ANDY SZCZESWY                                                                                                                   
198 Hillcrest Avenue                                                                                                            
Soldotna, Alaska  99669                                                                                                         
Telephone:  (907) 262-9439                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of reappointment of Mr.                                                                
                    Umphenour, Mr. Miller and Mr. Coffey to the                                                                 
                    Board of Fisheries.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA CADIENTE NELSON                                                                                                         
1625 Fritz Cove Road                                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 789-3448                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: During confirmation hearings, testified that                                                                
                    she would like to see two more commercial                                                                   
                    representatives on the Board of Fisheries.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
JIM ELLISON                                                                                                                     
P.O. Box 55590                                                                                                                  
North Pole, Alaska  99705                                                                                                       
Telephone:  (907) 488-3569                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 116.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT WELLS, Director                                                                                                          
Division of Agriculture                                                                                                         
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
1800 Glenn Highway, Suite 12                                                                                                    
Palmer, Alaska  99645                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 745-7200                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Informed members that he will work on HB 116                                                                
                    during the interim with Representative James,                                                               
                    sponsor, and Co-Chairman Ogan.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DICK ZOBEL                                                                                                                      
P.O. Box 872683                                                                                                                 
Wasilla, Alaska  99687                                                                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 376-5640                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 116.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
BOB FRANKLIN, State President                                                                                                   
Alaska Farm Bureau                                                                                                              
P.O. Box 75184                                                                                                                  
Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 488-7738                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Urged that HB 116 be pushed through                                                                         
                    legislature.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES                                                                                                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 102                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-3743                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as sponsor of HB 116.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BRENNON EAGLE                                                                                                                   
P.O. Box 576                                                                                                                    
Wrangell, Alaska  99929                                                                                                         
Telephone:  (907) 874-2162                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Urged passage of HB 104.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RAY CAMPBELL                                                                                                                    
P.O. Box 23219                                                                                                                  
Ketchikan, Alaska  99901                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 247-3626                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 104.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
LIZ CABRERA, Researcher                                                                                                         
   for Representative Bill Hudson and Committee Aide,                                                                           
   House Special Committee on Fisheries                                                                                         
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 108                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-6890                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained synopsis of changes in CSHB 104(FSH).                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MARY McDOWELL, Commissioner                                                                                                     
Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission                                                                                           
Alaska Department of Fish and Game                                                                                              
8800 Glacier Highway, Suite 109                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska  99801-8079                                                                                                      
Telephone:  (907) 789-6160                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 104.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-27, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCOTT OGAN called the House Resources Standing Committee                                                               
meeting to order at 1:11 p.m.  Members present at the call to order                                                             
were Representatives Ogan, Sanders, Harris and Whitaker.                                                                        
Representative Barnes arrived shortly after the call to order, and                                                              
Representatives Joule and Kapsner arrived at 1:14 p.m. and                                                                      
approximately 2:30 p.m., respectively.  Representatives Masek and                                                               
Morgan were excused.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Board of Fisheries                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN announced that the committee would consider three                                                                 
appointees to the Board of Fisheries.  After all had testified and                                                              
answered members' questions, the committee would hear public                                                                    
testimony on all three.  [Committee packets contained a resume from                                                             
each appointee, plus documents in support and in opposition, in                                                                 
varying combinations.]                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0167                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, Appointee to the Board of Fisheries, testified                                                                
via teleconference from Fairbanks.  A board member for five years,                                                              
he believes there is a lot of work to be done, he said, and that                                                                
the board has made a lot of improvements in the last couple of                                                                  
years.  He would like to continue to be part of the process.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN invited Representative Austerman to join committee                                                                
members at the table.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0287                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS remarked that the only negative comments he                                                               
had heard were regarding Mr. Umphenour, although he had never met                                                               
him.  He referred to a memorandum in the packet from Bob Martinson,                                                             
dated April 20, 1999, which said Mr. Umphenour's cussing and false                                                              
statements in front of the public put the board into executive                                                                  
session, and that he clearly has a conflict of interest in dealing                                                              
with matters of concern to Prince William Sound Aquaculture                                                                     
Corporation (PWSAC) and/or matters relating to the Copper River                                                                 
fishery.  Representative Harris noted that those entities are in                                                                
his district, and he asked Mr. Umphenour to respond.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0453                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. UMPHENOUR replied that he doesn't know anything about cussing                                                               
in public, or causing the board to go into executive session.  Nor                                                              
has he ever knowingly made a false statement.  He said he tries to                                                              
have his facts straight, so that what he says is true and correct,                                                              
and it is hard to address such a general allegation without knowing                                                             
what incident was being referenced.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS said he doesn't know the specific incidents,                                                              
either, and is just going on information given to him.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0568                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN informed members that he'd also received                                                               
several complaints regarding Mr. Umphenour, although his own                                                                    
relationship with him has been excellent in Mr. Umphenour's years                                                               
on the board.  The complaints alleged the inability to look at the                                                              
overall fisheries in Alaska, particularly the ground fisheries, and                                                             
that he had made some brash statements regarding their ability to                                                               
do clean fishing, for example.  Representative Austerman asked Mr.                                                              
Umphenour to state his position on Alaska's ground fisheries.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. UMPHENOUR responded:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     You've obviously been talking to hard-on-bottom trawlers.  I                                                               
     don't like hard-on-bottom trawling, because it's not a very                                                                
     responsible means of harvest.  If you talk to Duncan Fields,                                                               
     that represents the villages in Kodiak, you'll find that I've                                                              
     been very supportive of their concerns, as well as the                                                                     
     concerns of the smaller vessel groundfish fishermen in the                                                                 
     Area M and the Chignik districts.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     And I've done everything I can to ensure ... that the                                                                      
     fisheries don't become overcapitalized, and give the small                                                                 
     vessel - which are primarily Alaska resident fishermen - fair                                                              
     opportunity to harvest the allowable catch, rather than the                                                                
     big trawlers coming in and scooping up the catch, and, in the                                                              
     process, having unknown amounts of bycatch, and unknown damage                                                             
     to the habitat of the crabs, primarily the Bairdi and the king                                                             
     crab in the Kodiak area.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     I think that pot fishing and jig fishing is a much more                                                                    
     responsible method of harvest, and it gives people - the                                                                   
     smaller-vessel fishermen, such as in all the villages around                                                               
     Kodiak, and many of the residents in Kodiak city, as well as                                                               
     Chignik, Sand Point and King Cove - a much better opportunity                                                              
     to participate in the harvest of that resource, in a much more                                                             
     responsible manner.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0814                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN asked whether Mr. Umphenour had no problem                                                             
with trawl fisheries, then, other than hard-on-bottom draggers.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. UMPHENOUR replied:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Trawl fisheries have their place.  However, I don't think                                                                  
     hard-on-bottom trawling has its place anywhere, Representative                                                             
     Austerman.  I reviewed all the information that's available to                                                             
     the board, and to the council, and I just can't see                                                                        
     hard-on-bottom trawling as being a responsible means of                                                                    
     harvest.  I have a friend that's a skipper for Tyson on one of                                                             
     the very large factory trawlers that's operated off Kodiak                                                                 
     waters, and he told me until we eliminate hard-on-bottom                                                                   
     trawling, the crabs will never come back in Kodiak waters.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0868                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES clarified that the information Representative                                                             
Harris had discussed came in a letter referencing the 1996 board                                                                
cycle meeting in Cordova.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. UMPHENOUR explained:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The people in PWSAC don't like me, and there's a good reason                                                               
     for it.  PWSAC owes the state of Alaska in excess of $28                                                                   
     million.  Currently, the [division] of investments has                                                                     
     extended their loan with no interest. ... PWSAC I don't feel                                                               
     has operated in a responsible manner when it comes to the                                                                  
     production of chum and pink salmon.  As high as 97 percent of                                                              
     the harvest - and this was in 1996 - of chum salmon harvested                                                              
     in Prince William Sound was hatchery-produced.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     I feel ... that it's irresponsible to mass-produce salmon from                                                             
     hatcheries to the detriment of the wild stocks, because the                                                                
     board is mandated, by the constitution of the state and by the                                                             
     legislature, to manage salmon resources in such a manner that                                                              
     the wild stocks take priority over the enhanced or the                                                                     
     hatchery-produced stocks. ...                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1043                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Umphenour to comment further on the                                                             
accusation that his cussing and false statements had put the board                                                              
into executive session.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. UMPHENOUR replied that to the best of his memory, the board                                                                 
didn't enter into executive session during the meeting of December                                                              
1996, which was in Cordova.  He added:                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     I do know that some of the driftnet fishermen that fish inside                                                             
     the barrier islands of the Copper River - and the water is                                                                 
     two-to-ten-feet deep, and they're using drift gillnets that                                                                
     are 29-feet deep, and they're using them in a manner ... that                                                              
     you would use a beach seine, and they are seining the king                                                                 
     salmon out - that they are causing a problem with genetic                                                                  
     diversity of the king salmon stocks in the Copper River,                                                                   
     because they kill between 95 and 100 percent of the king                                                                   
     salmon present in the district when they do that.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     And knowing that king salmon, whenever they are getting                                                                    
     accustomed to the change from salt water to fresh water, that                                                              
     they spend seven days to two weeks milling in and out of the                                                               
     mouth of the river, ... I don't think that's a responsible way                                                             
     to fish.  And because I was one of the people that caused that                                                             
     fishery to be restrictive a little bit, to allow king salmon                                                               
     to get up the river unmolested, then some of the commercial                                                                
     fishermen that are involved in that practice - and actually do                                                             
     not like me, because they consider me a threat, because they                                                               
     don't like responsible fish management - they would like to be                                                             
     able to kill every last fish, and they don't care if the sport                                                             
     fishermen and the personal use fishermen and the subsistence                                                               
     fishermen get restricted upriver, as long as they can catch                                                                
     all they can catch at the mouth of the river first.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN asked if there were further questions from the                                                                    
committee.  He then called upon Grant Miller.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1259                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GRANT MILLER, Appointee to the Board of Fisheries, testified via                                                                
teleconference from Sitka.  He said he believes this board has done                                                             
a commendable job.  He appreciates having been part of this team                                                                
for the last three years and would like to continue.  Noting his                                                                
involvement in the sustainable fisheries committee since its                                                                    
formation, he concluded, "I would like to see that project through                                                              
to completion, and with the development of a sustainable fisheries                                                              
policy for the state."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1322                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN asked why Mr. Miller volunteers for this.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER responded:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Well, I think that the makeup of this board has been such that                                                             
     ... it's been a little bit inspiring to tackle some of these                                                               
     issues and challenges.  I appreciate working with these guys,                                                              
     and I realize, too, that ... if the three of us did not                                                                    
     continue, I think that some of the things that were left on                                                                
     the table - such as sustainable fisheries - would have to be                                                               
     picked up by people new to this board.  It would put a greater                                                             
     burden on Dr. White, who has been, also, a part of the                                                                     
     sustainable fisheries committee since the beginning.  And for                                                              
     those reasons, I think, I chose to go ... another term.                                                                    
     Certainly there's times when I wish I wasn't a part of this                                                                
     process, but I think that more often than not, when I walk                                                                 
     away from a meeting cycle in one of the communities, I feel                                                                
     pretty good about what's been done.  So, until that changes,                                                               
     I think that I still look ... towards these meetings in a                                                                  
     positive way.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1409                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS inquired about Mr. Miller's involvement and                                                               
expertise in fisheries in Alaska.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER replied that he started fishing 31 years ago.  On the                                                                
East Coast, he used fish traps, then fished on hard-on-bottom                                                                   
draggers, scallopers, and did some gillnetting for mackerel.  He                                                                
moved to the West Coast, where he began trolling and seined for                                                                 
anchovies for bait.  He trolled for salmon first in California and                                                              
then in Alaska, where he moved in 1977.  He believes it was in 1980                                                             
that he began gillnetting for herring.  He then diversified,                                                                    
longlining for halibut and getting into the herring bait business.                                                              
Mr. Miller informed members that he has also used his Merchant                                                                  
Marine license to operate tenders and processors, and to run those                                                              
boats back and forth between Dutch Harbor and Seattle, for example.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1524                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS asked how Mr. Miller feels about the                                                                      
compatibility of sport fishing and commercial fishing.  Commenting                                                              
that it seems Mr. Umphenour is fairly opposed to the hatchery                                                                   
system in the state, he also asked how Mr. Miller feels about that.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER replied that he thinks there is a potential for                                                                      
compatibility, and it has been demonstrated.  He stated:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     But I think that ... that compatibility is going to be at risk                                                             
     if we don't get a handle on the growth of the sport industry.                                                              
     You can't take a ... fully allocated resource and continue to                                                              
     have one user group continue to expand, and expect that the                                                                
     resource, or the others that are using that resource, are                                                                  
     going to continue to exist harmoniously. It's not going to                                                                 
     work that way.  We're going to have to either get a moratorium                                                             
     ... on charters, or some kind of ... annual limit on sport                                                                 
     anglers, some way to have a little bit of restriction of                                                                   
     growth in the sport industry, if they're going to remain                                                                   
     compatible on into the future.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     In terms of the hatchery, I believe that, of course, each                                                                  
     hatchery ... has developed over time and gone in different                                                                 
     directions and, depending on where they are, have had                                                                      
     different challenges.  Some ... have handled the mitigation of                                                             
     wild stock impacts quite well. ... Others may not have, or ...                                                             
     circumstances may have changed, ... where perhaps their                                                                    
     production now conflicts with wild stock.  But ... I think                                                                 
     it's always been the intent of any hatchery within the state                                                               
     ... to not produce fish in an area where wild stocks are                                                                   
     impacted. ...                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     I also believe that, due to circumstances, oftentimes beyond                                                               
     the control the hatcheries, the economics of the state have                                                                
     been such that they've gotten into debt, and, ... in their                                                                 
     attempts to get out of debt, produced more fish.  Of course,                                                               
     that created [a] downward spiral, in terms of the value                                                                    
     received for those fish, so that more had to be produced, and                                                              
     they got further into debt.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Somehow or other, we need ... to deal with that debt                                                                       
     situation.  And I think we talked to someone from the state                                                                
     not too long ago, who said that they had ... redone all of                                                                 
     those debts, and every one that was out there now, they felt                                                               
     that they were going to be able to repay. ... Those are some                                                               
     of the worst-case scenarios.  We still have others, such as                                                                
     NSRAA [Northern Southeast Regional Aquaculture Association],                                                               
     who have paid their debt back ... to the state and are                                                                     
     operating in a ... much more fortunate situation.  And                                                                     
     possibly they should be an example to some of the others, if                                                               
     at all possible.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1723                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES read from Article VIII, Section 3, of the                                                                 
constitution, regarding common use.  She stated her belief that                                                                 
most Alaskan sport fishermen use the fish they catch to fill their                                                              
freezers and to feed their families, although there is a commercial                                                             
sport fish business.  She stated, "I don't disagree with                                                                        
controlling the commercial sports fish business, or any other, as                                                               
long as we maintain the sustained yield principle."  She asked how                                                              
Mr. Miller can say that one user group should be controlled more                                                                
than the other.  She further asked whether there isn't an                                                                       
obligation to control commercial catch, as well.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER responded:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     I believe in almost all the situations, the commercial                                                                     
     industry already has ... its limitations, either restrictions                                                              
     in numbers of permits, or quotas.  They're the only group that                                                             
     ... their growth has been stopped.  Perhaps their ability to                                                               
     catch may have increased somewhat, just due to technology.                                                                 
     But as a user group in general, more people that come up here                                                              
     to use, to utilize, this resource, as a sport fisherman, ...                                                               
     there is no way to stop that.  And when you have an                                                                        
     already-allocated resource, then that comes from someone else.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     The commercial fishermen ... catch a lot of fish, but those                                                                
     fishermen produce fish for the people who cannot afford to                                                                 
     come to Alaska and catch fish, or people who do not live here,                                                             
     or who live here and cannot afford to go out and catch fish to                                                             
     put in their freezers to eat.  The commercial fishermen                                                                    
     provide fish for all those others consumers.  And I believe                                                                
     this as to be access to the common property.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1859                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES agreed that happens, at a price.  She                                                                     
believes seasons and bag limits are now imposed on all the                                                                      
fisheries, she said.  If not, she asked that Mr. Miller tell her                                                                
where that is.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER responded that he doesn't believe there are annual                                                                   
limits, as such, in every area.  This allocation issue comes before                                                             
the board because of increased usage - more and more people are                                                                 
trying to get more and more of the product.  Every time that                                                                    
happens, they must reallocate away from one user group to another                                                               
expanding user group, and that is his concern.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1931                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES pointed out that there were problems on the                                                               
Kenai River before.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN asked if there were other questions from the                                                                      
committee, then called upon Dan Coffey.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1993                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DAN COFFEY, Appointee to the Board of Fisheries, testified via                                                                  
teleconference from Anchorage, noting that he has been on the board                                                             
with the other two appointees for more than three years.  A lot of                                                              
work done regarding Alaska's fisheries needs to continue, he said,                                                              
and three areas will take a lot of board work in the next three                                                                 
years: sustainable fisheries; a board process that has evolved to                                                               
the point where the board is now able to handle the volume of work                                                              
which it has; and substantial issues related to the federal                                                                     
takeover of subsistence fisheries.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. COFFEY mentioned the board's diversity, then stated, "Mr.                                                                   
Miller and I don't agree on all issues, but Mr. Miller is a                                                                     
thoughtful spokesman for his position.  And I listen to him and                                                                 
find wisdom in some of the things he says, and I believe he finds                                                               
it in some of the things I say.  And the same with Mr. Umphenour.                                                               
What I've found ... over the past three years is that this                                                                      
diversity of opinion ... has been a benefit.  And what I find most                                                              
helpful is the willingness to listen, and the willingness to work                                                               
together."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. COFFEY noted the board's long hours, for concentrated periods                                                               
of time.  He believes his organizational ability is helpful to                                                                  
members in having a successful process.  "Although there's many who                                                             
disagree with our decisions, we do take the process through to the                                                              
conclusion, ... with what I hope to be sound and reasoned                                                                       
regulatory decisions," he said, indicating a desire to continue                                                                 
because there is still work to be done, to preserve this method of                                                              
doing business.  He believes the process is valuable.  It permits                                                               
tremendous public participation, as the people in the fisheries get                                                             
to participate in the regulation of these fisheries, and their                                                                  
interests get heard, balanced and tested against one another.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. COFFEY concluded, "Myself and these other gentlemen that I work                                                             
with are of the same mind.  And so, we wanted to come forward as a                                                              
collective, so to speak, because we each bring some diversity and                                                               
some different ways of looking at things to this process, but we                                                                
all are committed to an open and public process that leads to good                                                              
regulatory results.  So, I would hope that I would have the                                                                     
opportunity to finish that work with Dr. White and Mr. Umphenour                                                                
and Mr. Miller and others."                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2178                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER suggested that the other appointees could                                                               
be categorized, one as being in favor or more sport-oriented and                                                                
subsistence-oriented fishing, and the other as being in favor of                                                                
more commercially oriented fishing.  He asked how Mr. Coffey would                                                              
classify himself regarding those two categories.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. COFFEY replied that his background is mixed, and he was a                                                                   
commercial fisherman before going to law school.  He expounded:                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     What I try to do is bring a perspective to the fishery, rather                                                             
     than just a mind set going in.  In some areas - many, many                                                                 
     areas of our state - the commercial fishery interests                                                                      
     predominate.  There is little or no sport fishery.  In other                                                               
     areas, the subsistence fisheries predominate.  In Southeast                                                                
     and in Southcentral here, where I'm from, in Anchorage,                                                                    
     there's huge conflicts between sport and commercial.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Generally -- and my sense there is the problems come because                                                               
     the sport fisheries have increased in participation, because                                                               
     more people are engaged in them, and because businesses have                                                               
     arisen out of those.  And so, you have allocation fights, and                                                              
     you have to balance the competing interests between the two.                                                               
     ... The end result is ... that frequently the commercial                                                                   
     fisheries, because ... they've harvested the bulk of the                                                                   
     resource over time, they're the ones who must surrender a                                                                  
     portion of that resource.  I don't find that to be improper or                                                             
     inappropriate.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     ... In Cook Inlet, I have a friend who's a processor, and he                                                               
     told me 20 years ago the drift fleet had wooden boats,                                                                     
     100-horse-power engines, and if they brought in 2,000 pounds                                                               
     of fish, they considered it a great day.  He said now they've                                                              
     got high-powered boats, they have their own air force,                                                                     
     although we took that away from them this year, ... and they                                                               
     expect to harvest two million pounds.  So, their technological                                                             
     abilities have grown tremendously, and their ability to                                                                    
     harvest fish has grown tremendously.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     And, at the same time, the department, through its                                                                         
     conservation efforts, has increased the catches tremendously,                                                              
     particularly in Cook Inlet, so that I have no problem in that                                                              
     particular fishery saying, "Wait a minute, this is where the                                                               
     people - a large number of people - live, and we ought to                                                                  
     afford those large number of people the opportunity to harvest                                                             
     fish for their table, be they personal use fishermen or sports                                                             
     fishermen."  So, in Cook Inlet, I'm more concerned with the                                                                
     sport fishery than I am with the commercial fishery.  And I                                                                
     think that says it as best I can, sir.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2341                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN asked if there were further questions, then opened                                                                
public testimony on all three appointees.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2402                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SUE ASPELUND, Executive Director, Cordova District Fishermen United                                                             
(CDFU), testified via teleconference from Cordova, informing                                                                    
members that CDFU is composed of Prince William Sound and Copper                                                                
River families dependent upon commercial fisheries.  She said the                                                               
United Salmon Association (ph) of Prince William Sound had asked                                                                
that the following comments be accepted as representative of their                                                              
position, as well.  She stated:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     These appointments are by far the most critical issue facing                                                               
     the small, independent fishing families who comprise Alaska's                                                              
     second-largest income-producing industry.  The Board of                                                                    
     Fisheries' actions and decisions affect our daily lives and                                                                
     ... currently have an enormous impact on our abilities to                                                                  
     sustain both our resources and our livelihoods.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     As we discuss the many issues that surround the Board of                                                                   
     Fisheries and its function, one of the greatest concerns to                                                                
     emerge is the composition of the board, an issue that you have                                                             
     the opportunity to address through your confirmation process.                                                              
     We felt it appropriate to define the [criteria] required of                                                                
     any member, and these are as follows:  It is imperative that                                                               
     informed, competent and fair-minded individuals be appointed.                                                              
     The successful appointee must be knowledgeable of, committed                                                               
     to, and have respect for the public processes established at                                                               
     statehood for regulating Alaska's fisheries resources.  A                                                                  
     clear understanding of the board's regulatory and statutory                                                                
     authorities is requisite.  The qualified appointee must be an                                                              
     unbiased decision maker, willing and able to fact-find to make                                                             
     the best decision possible, based upon available information.                                                              
     And an appointee, at the very least, should maintain respect                                                               
     for those people represented by the process.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     It is our belief that the current board is imbalanced.  Most                                                               
     of the decisions made by the board are nuts-and-bolts                                                                      
     regulations governing the orderly prosecution of the                                                                       
     commercial fisheries, decisions that affect commercial                                                                     
     harvesters of the resource most intimately, yet only one                                                                   
     person out of seven currently serving on the board has                                                                     
     extensive experience as a commercial fisherman - Grant Miller.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     The issues facing the state's largest private-sector employer                                                              
     are diverse:  competing demands on an already fully utilized                                                               
     resource, global market concerns, quality, cuts to resource                                                                
     management budgets, interactions between a variety of                                                                      
     jurisdictional authorities, fisheries failure, the pending                                                                 
     federal subsistence takeover and more.  These concerns demand                                                              
     the knowledge, skills and abilities that come from a broader                                                               
     scope of experience than currently exists on the board.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     We are strongly opposed to the reappointment of Virgil                                                                     
     Umphenour to the board.  We've not seen the criteria above                                                                 
     demonstrated by Mr. Umphenour during his tenure on the board.                                                              
     CDFU is certain that after thoughtful application of the                                                                   
     guidelines detailed here, you will come to the conclusion that                                                             
     the Board of Fisheries process, and Alaska's fisheries                                                                     
     resource users, would benefit from a change in membership.                                                                 
     Mr. Umphenour has just provided you with a perfect example of                                                              
     why CDFU cannot support his confirmation, when he made                                                                     
     inaccurate and negative assertions regarding the beliefs and                                                               
     opinions of Copper River fishermen, in the response to                                                                     
     questioning during this session.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2571                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RUSSELL NELSON testified via teleconference from Dillingham in                                                                  
support of all three appointees.  He stated:                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     I found Mr. Virgil Umphenour to be an honest, knowledgeable                                                                
     and hard-working member of the Board of Fisheries.  I'd like                                                               
     to support for Mr. Umphenour, as I've learned a lot working                                                                
     with him.  I don't recall him ever cussing during a meeting,                                                               
     and the board of fish has never gone into an executive                                                                     
     session, for any reason, while I've been on the Board of                                                                   
     Fisheries.  Mr. Umphenour's a great advocate of conservation                                                               
     of ... fish stocks, in all areas of the state of Alaska, and                                                               
     I hope you will support Mr. Umphenour in his bid for                                                                       
     reconfirmation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Mr. Grant Miller has a wealth of knowledge in the area of                                                                  
     commercial fishing, which I've drawn off of considerably in                                                                
     this last year.  Mr. Miller works well with the Board of                                                                   
     Fisheries, and I'd like to give him my support in his bid for                                                              
     reconfirmation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Mr. Dan Coffey brings to the Board of Fisheries his background                                                             
     as a lawyer.  This I have found to be of great value while                                                                 
     making regulations and working with other issues on the Board                                                              
     of Fisheries.  It would be hard to find a replacement for Mr.                                                              
     Coffey ... in organization and in the writing of regulations.                                                              
     I would like to support Mr. Coffey in his bid for                                                                          
     reconfirmation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2642                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DALE BONDURANT testified via teleconference from Kenai.  He stated:                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     I support the reappointment of all three members.  I have not                                                              
     agreed with any of the board members all the time, but I do                                                                
     agree with what the board tried to accomplish in the recent                                                                
     meeting in Soldotna.  It is the first time which they did move                                                             
     in support of the need to manage all discrete stocks on a                                                                  
     sustained yield basis, and not a continuation of maximum                                                                   
     harvest of the largest stocks.  This has been a major failure,                                                             
     especially in the Cook Inlet salmon fisheries.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     In the past years, I observed that the boards were always                                                                  
     weighted in favor of commercial fishing, even when the boards                                                              
     were combined as a fish and game board.  It was time for the                                                               
     board to be more fairly divided, to represent all public                                                                   
     interest.  I believe the present board is more representative                                                              
     of the general public interest.  I think all the men are                                                                   
     sincere and really work hard on this.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2786                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROY ASHENFELTER testified via teleconference from Nome.  He first                                                               
spoke on behalf of Kawerak, Incorporated, in favor of reappointment                                                             
of Mr. Umphenour.  He then said he would stay neutral on Mr.                                                                    
Miller's reappointment, but wants to show personal support for                                                                  
reappointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey.  He said Mr.                                                                     
Umphenour brings to the board a very candid and up-front point of                                                               
view; he supports the Western fisheries; and he has shown support                                                               
for subsistence fisheries, which is important for the Nome region.                                                              
Mr. Ashenfelter expressed belief that Mr. Coffey, whom he has                                                                   
watched over the last years, has done a very good job in                                                                        
organization.  He concluded by indicating that all three appointees                                                             
have done a good job of following the laws applicable to the board.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN called on Mr. Reid in Cordova but was informed that                                                               
Mr. Reid had stepped out and planned to return.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2864                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JERRY McCUNE came forward on his own behalf as a Copper River                                                                   
fisherman.  He had heard some disturbing things that aren't true                                                                
from Mr. Umphenour, he said, then acknowledged how tough the job of                                                             
board member is.  Mr. McCune told members the Copper River's small                                                              
run is protected by the commercial fishermen, who depend on it                                                                  
heavily; they have sat out many days to ensure that the run is                                                                  
sustainable.  Furthermore, a drift gillnet cannot stay in those                                                                 
small tributaries, as the water runs out fast in minus tides.  Nor                                                              
does he believe the king salmon are a problem.  Mr. McCune stated,                                                              
"We finally proved that after we got some money from sport fish and                                                             
the [commercial] fish division to do the ... index studies on king                                                              
salmon."  He said there was record escapement of kings last year.                                                               
There have been record king runs the last three years, and he                                                                   
believes the managers are very good managers.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-27, SIDE B                                                                                                              
[Numbers run backwards because of tape machine]                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. McCUNE recalled that 40 years ago there were only 800,000 fish,                                                             
whereas now the escapement goal is 650,000 "to accommodate all the                                                              
other users."  He believes PWSAC has done an excellent job for                                                                  
commercial, sport and subsistence users.  He explained, "We run a                                                               
hatchery, egg boxes, on the Copper River, that produces about                                                                   
300,000 reds, which all users have access to, and the fishermen pay                                                             
for.  Now, we do have a small chum run, that we started years ago.                                                              
It started with the earliest chums in the sound, so it would not                                                                
conflict with any wild stocks.  And that is fished by the drift                                                                 
gillnetters ... in June, because that's why we picked that stock.                                                               
And if you want to know the truth about this whole thing, this all                                                              
started with this chum roe, because Mr. Umphenour does sell chum                                                                
roe, (indisc.) chum roe. ... I will stand by any statement that                                                                 
some of the statements Mr. Umphenour has made [have] been very                                                                  
inflammatory towards the Copper River fishermen and PWSAC, very                                                                 
biased."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. McCUNE said he believes Mr. Coffey has done a great job, is                                                                 
very organized, and knows his issues when he comes there.  Mr.                                                                  
Miller, a commercial fisherman, is also really organized, he said.                                                              
Mr. McCune expressed appreciation for the board and suggested the                                                               
system works well.  However, he believes the industry is trying to                                                              
say there should be one more person on the board, for a total of                                                                
two, who could make sense of these mixed-stock fisheries.  Although                                                             
the other six members may have had past fishing experience, they                                                                
are not full-time fishermen and don't understand some of these                                                                  
fisheries.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2829                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES said she had never heard the commercial                                                                   
fishermen beg the legislature for additional representation on the                                                              
board, because it was always dominated by them at others' expense.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. McCUNE agreed that the board was dominated by commercial                                                                    
fishermen for a time.  He restated his request for another person                                                               
experienced with commercial fishing who understands the mixed-stock                                                             
fisheries.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2733                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES referred to the Kenai Peninsula Borough                                                                   
resolution in committee packets, which opposed the confirmation of                                                              
all three appointees and suggested the appointment of two                                                                       
commercial fishermen "who have knowledge in large fisheries such as                                                             
Cook Inlet, and that one of the appointees be a Cook Inlet                                                                      
commercial fisherman."  She stated, "We all know that what 90                                                                   
percent of this about is ... trying to make some fairness out of                                                                
what has gone on in the Kenai for all these years."  She asked                                                                  
whether Mr. McCune agreed.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. McCUNE replied, "I think that they balanced the things in the                                                               
Cook Inlet meeting, and that meeting is over, and they made some                                                                
shifts."  He said there has been a fundamental shift towards                                                                    
accommodating sport fishing and personal use, and he has no problem                                                             
with that.  He added that some of this is probably about                                                                        
personalities, and some is about how people perceived these tough                                                               
issues.  He then restated that he believes the industry would like                                                              
another representative, as it has flip-flopped the other way from                                                               
when the board had a commercial domination.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES said the only member she can specifically                                                                 
identify as being possibly connected to sports fishing is Dan                                                                   
Coffey.  She believes that all the others, in some way or other,                                                                
have had ties to commercial fishing.  "And even him," she                                                                       
concluded, referring to Mr. Coffey.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN called upon Bill Reid but was informed that Mr. Reid                                                              
had had to leave.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2583                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TERRY HOEFFERLE, Bristol Bay Native Association, testified via                                                                  
teleconference from Dillingham, voicing the association's support                                                               
for the reappointment of all three nominees.  He said this                                                                      
particular Board of Fisheries has made an excellent start in the                                                                
task that they have taken upon themselves, then added, "This is the                                                             
most solid board of fish, I think, that I've seen in years of                                                                   
observing."  He pointed out that each of these members is                                                                       
intelligent, fair, and contributes in his own way to the board's                                                                
deliberative process.  "Please reappoint them all," he concluded.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2523                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REUBEN HANKE testified via teleconference from Kenai, specifying                                                                
that he supports the reconfirmation of all three appointees.  He                                                                
said he had traveled to several meetings over the years, and nearly                                                             
all the ones on the list this year.  "I've seen these guys work                                                                 
together," he stated.  "They do a fantastic job, and they've made                                                               
great strides in improving and working toward better fisheries                                                                  
throughout the state of Alaska.  So, I would be in favor of all                                                                 
three people - that's Virgil Umphenour, Grant Miller and Dan Coffey                                                             
- and I urge you to reappoint."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2489                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOE HANES testified via teleconference from Soldotna, indicating he                                                             
has been in involved in a fishery and guided there for over 20                                                                  
years.  He traveled to, he believes, every Board of Fisheries                                                                   
meeting this past fall.  Mr. Hanes urged reappointment of all three                                                             
members.  Although he has opposed all three on some points in the                                                               
past, overall he finds them to be very productive, thoughtful and,                                                              
above all, caring for the resource.  He suggested that much of the                                                              
opposition comes from the tough decisions that they make, pointing                                                              
out that in the past, not only in Alaska but in other fisheries,                                                                
there have been people unwilling to make tough decisions, resulting                                                             
in having no fish left.  Mr. Hanes pointed out that in many cases                                                               
the opposition comes from people who want to catch fish now and not                                                             
worry about tomorrow.  "And this board I've found to make very                                                                  
difficult decisions for the preservation of all fisheries for the                                                               
future," he concluded.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2398                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ANDY SZCZESWY testified via teleconference from Kenai, stating that                                                             
he favors reappointment of all three members.  In five years of                                                                 
participating in Board of Fisheries meetings, he has never seen a                                                               
group of individuals work so well together.  "I don't agree with                                                                
everything that they do, but I think they do the best job that they                                                             
can," he added.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2348                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA CADIENTE NELSON came forward.  A lifelong resident of                                                                   
Juneau, she told members she has been married almost 30 years to a                                                              
commercial fisherman.  They have four children and three                                                                        
grandchildren, for whom they have provided solely through income                                                                
from commercial fishing.  She said she was there on behalf of her                                                               
father-in-law, Norville Olie Nelson, Sr. (ph) on the F/V Christian;                                                             
Norville Nelson, Jr. (ph), her husband, on the F/V Star of the Sea;                                                             
and her son, Norville E. Nelson III (ph), on the F/V Aleut                                                                      
Princess.  Ms. Nelson indicated she had testified before the Board                                                              
of Fisheries three times in the last nine years regarding king crab                                                             
fisheries.  While she had found them to be very hard-working                                                                    
individuals, she had felt at somewhat of a disadvantage in not                                                                  
having fair representation among the board members.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. NELSON said she is in full support of Mr. McCune's comments,                                                                
with one exception:  She would like to see two more commercial                                                                  
fishermen added to this board.  She reminded the committee of the                                                               
recent economic summit, saying she got out of it that the                                                                       
legislature, and the state in general, need to be more                                                                          
knowledgeable of how the private businessman does business in the                                                               
state, "and how we are major contributors to the state's economy."                                                              
She stated, "Our vessels alone employ 12 other fishermen, and you                                                               
multiply that by the number of their households, we affect many                                                                 
lives, and we are major contributors in our community, and in                                                                   
Southeast Alaska."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. NELSON expressed the belief that their limited entry permits                                                                
are personal property, suggesting that the Board of Fisheries,                                                                  
then, is their due process of law in seeing their property rights                                                               
upheld or taken away.  Therefore, it seems reasonable that the                                                                  
board be composed of a fair number of fishermen who can relate to                                                               
their concerns, she said.  "We not only have to deal with Mother                                                                
Nature and all the other impacts of our risky business," she told                                                               
members, "we have to deal with politics, and state and federal                                                                  
regulations that limit our ability to feed and clothe our                                                                       
families."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. NELSON pointed out that her father-in-law was a commercial                                                                  
fisherman before Alaska even became a state.  She told members,                                                                 
"It's amazing, and myself and my husband being indigenous people of                                                             
Alaska, that we've even survived many of the impacts that have                                                                  
negatively affected our businesses.  We're still here, and we're                                                                
still hanging on.  So, I look to the Board of Fisheries to be a                                                                 
fair and reasonable compromise of men and women who can address our                                                             
concerns and represent our concerns when issues come before them."                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. NELSON concluded, "I came in here not knowing whether or not I                                                              
would be in support of Mr. Coffey or Mr. Umphenour.  I'd met them.                                                              
I've found them to be hard-working.  All that set aside, I still                                                                
believe that we, as commercial fishermen, are not getting fair                                                                  
representation among the compromise of the makeup now of the Board                                                              
of Fisheries."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2146                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN asked whether anyone else wished to testify, then                                                                 
closed testimony.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2072                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SANDERS made a motion to move the nominations of Virgil                                                                
Umphenour, Grant Miller and Dan Coffey to the Board of Fisheries                                                                
out of committee.  There being no objection, the confirmations were                                                             
advanced for all three appointees.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HB 116 - BOARD OF AGRICULTURE AND CONSERVATION                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN announced that the committee would hear testimony on                                                              
House Bill No. 116, "An Act relating to the Board of Agriculture                                                                
and Conservation, to the agricultural revolving loan fund, to the                                                               
disposal of state agricultural land, and to the Alaska Natural                                                                  
Resource Conservation and Development Board; and providing for an                                                               
effective date."  [Adopted as a work draft at the previous hearing                                                              
had been version 1-LS0407\N, Cook, 4/8/99.  However, members had                                                                
been provided with a new proposed committee substitute, version                                                                 
1-LS0407\S.]                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2051                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JIM ELLISON testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, noting                                                                 
that he farms, raises stock and fowl, and publishes the Alaska                                                                  
Farming Magazine.  He has observed Alaska agriculture for more than                                                             
30 years, he said.  Although it has had ups and downs, today it is                                                              
a $53 million business.  Although some say it holds the key to                                                                  
Alaska's future, it also can be damaged by political decisions.  He                                                             
finds that HB 116 helps to "plug that failure," and he fully                                                                    
supports it.  "I cannot understand anybody that ever studied any of                                                             
the history of agriculture in this state that would be against it,"                                                             
he concluded, suggesting that HB 116 will help the farmer, the                                                                  
consumer and Alaska's political future.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1974                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN turned over the gavel to Co-Chair Sanders and left                                                                
briefly.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1947                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT WELLS, Director, Division of Agriculture, Department of                                                                  
Natural Resources, spoke briefly via teleconference from the Mat-Su                                                             
Legislative Information Office (LIO).  Noting his availability to                                                               
answer questions, he announced that he had committed to work on                                                                 
this bill during the interim with Representative James, sponsor,                                                                
and Co-Chairman Ogan.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1903                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DICK ZOBEL testified via teleconference from the Mat-Su LIO.  He                                                                
agreed somewhat with Mr. Ellison, in that much in HB 116 is                                                                     
beneficial to agriculture in Alaska.  He himself has farmed in                                                                  
Alaska for 20 years, he said, and although he now works in the                                                                  
woods, he believes forestry to be an agricultural pursuit.  Mr.                                                                 
Zobel reiterated his concern, voiced at the previous hearing,                                                                   
regarding inclusion of a soil and water conservation board in this                                                              
bill.  He said it is obvious, from the testimony of people in favor                                                             
of HB 116, that this is a "production-agricultural bill," not a                                                                 
"soil and water conservation bill."  He believes it totally ignores                                                             
some founding principles "that most of us in the soil and water                                                                 
conservation movement are involved in."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. ZOBEL referred to another's testimony about how the various                                                                 
board members would be from agriculture-producing areas of the                                                                  
state.  He called to members' attention that the current statute,                                                               
in particular, AS 41.10.65, "went out of its way to make sure that                                                              
those areas of the state that are not primarily involved in                                                                     
agriculture do also have conservation issues."  Thus, he said,                                                                  
there is membership from Southeast Alaska and Western Alaska, as                                                                
well as from the prime agricultural areas.  He told members:                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     I think the statement that none of the local conservation                                                                  
     districts would be affected by this bill further clarifies                                                                 
     that somebody's missing the boat.  The state natural resource                                                              
     conservation and development board is a local conservation                                                                 
     district; it is the largest one in the state.  And if you                                                                  
     eliminate it, you eliminate a district from the state.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     And I think the authors of this bill, or the proponents of the                                                             
     bill, fail to recognize the unique relationship between the                                                                
     state board, the natural resource department, and the local                                                                
     districts.  This unique relationship goes on and involves                                                                  
     several federal agencies, through the districts and through                                                                
     that natural resource conservation board, which is also a                                                                  
     district. ... The bottom line is that this board ignores that                                                              
     natural resource conservation board participation in being a                                                               
     local district.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     The state association of conservation districts [and] the                                                                  
     natural resource conservation development board recommended                                                                
     that ... all the conservation references in this bill be                                                                   
     deleted.  We don't think this bill addresses those                                                                         
     conservation issues, and, most certainly, two people from a                                                                
     conservation board could not do the ... current job that it is                                                             
     being done by five. ...                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     An inclusion of 41.10 in this current bill - vague as it is,                                                               
     spotted as it is throughout the bill - simply does not address                                                             
     what the conservation districts have always done.                                                                          
     Conservation districts have always strove to provide, through                                                              
     our relationship with several other federal and state                                                                      
     agencies, a service to Alaska private land owners.  We also                                                                
     provide those services to city, borough and state government.                                                              
     And this inclusion in this bill would not do a thing to either                                                             
     enhance -- and it is my personal opinion it would decrease the                                                             
     services that we would offer Alaskans.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SANDERS turned the gavel back over to Co-Chair Ogan.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1616                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BOB FRANKLIN, State President, Alaska Farm Bureau, testified via                                                                
teleconference from Fairbanks, saying it seems there is some                                                                    
opposition from other areas of the state, outside of the                                                                        
agricultural community; however, those concerns cannot be addressed                                                             
unless it is known what they are.  He sees this legislation as an                                                               
advancement to the agricultural community.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. FRANKLIN stated, "Now, the soil/water conservation district, or                                                             
the board, definitely has some valid points in their                                                                            
representation.  I think it remains to be seen whether it's                                                                     
sufficient or insufficient, because I don't think there's any basic                                                             
understanding ... of what that board really, actually, does, and                                                                
how it's really financed ...."  He suggested that HB 116 needs to                                                               
be pushed through, as it can provide the industry continuity and                                                                
stability.  He referred to SB 136 [which Representative James later                                                             
said she believed to be SB 132]; Mr. Franklin said that was                                                                     
introduced without any knowledge of the industry.  He concluded, "I                                                             
think we're in a dangerous situation and, realizing that, I think                                                               
we need this board of agriculture even more so, to protect the                                                                  
assets of the ARLF [Agricultural Revolving Loan Fund], the                                                                      
agricultural lands and the industry."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1441                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor,                                                              
noted that HB 116 would be worked on intensively during the                                                                     
interim.  She understands the concern of the conservation board,                                                                
she told listeners, pointing out that this doesn't affect the soil                                                              
and water districts at all.  The only thing incorporated into this                                                              
bill is the resource board that works within the Department of                                                                  
Natural Resources (DNR).  She stated:                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     And they talked about the large district, that is, the                                                                     
     district of Alaska that's not covered by other soil and water                                                              
     conservation districts.  That board, for the amount of money                                                               
     that they have been using to operate, has been coming from the                                                             
     [Agricultural] Revolving Loan Fund.  So, this is an                                                                        
     agriculture interest.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     And the comment that only two soil and water conservation                                                                  
     district folks on this nine-member board is not going to give                                                              
     them the same coverage that a five-member board [would] is not                                                             
     true, because what we have is two representatives on a                                                                     
     nine-member board from the soil and water conservation                                                                     
     districts, to a nine-member board, who will do the same things                                                             
     that the existing resource board does now, that is five                                                                    
     members.  So, I think it's a matter of understanding the                                                                   
     principle and the basics of it.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     The issue that I've heard also is that conservation has more                                                               
     to do with lots of different land issues than agriculture.                                                                 
     And that's true that agriculture is a small part of that.  I                                                               
     think it's in the best interest of agriculture to broaden its                                                              
     perspective in conservation issues, if they want to be                                                                     
     successful in agriculture in this state, because I think it's                                                              
     important that they understand all of the conservation issues                                                              
     around the state, whether or not it directly affects any of                                                                
     their operations or not, because there's lots and lots of                                                                  
     land, within this state, that is not currently being used for                                                              
     anything, and might make some good agricultural land.  So, I                                                               
     think broadening the agriculture into agriculture and                                                                      
     conservation is a good idea.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     We'll continue to work on this.  I urge anyone that has any                                                                
     questions or comments or concerns to discuss it with me.  And                                                              
     my mind is open, and we want to have something that works in                                                               
     the end.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said she believes Mr. Franklin was talking                                                                 
about SB 132, which transfers all of the examination from the                                                                   
Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) to the Division of                                                               
Agriculture.  Along with that comes some money, she said, but it is                                                             
just another opportunity to use more of the ARLF without the                                                                    
permission of the Division of Agriculture.  Although there has                                                                  
always been the desire to have farm issues, such as meat and milk,                                                              
under the Division of Agriculture, they need to discuss whether to                                                              
include fish and every other area, and to discuss how it would be                                                               
paid for.  Representative James said those are the kinds of                                                                     
concerns she has had since she has been in the legislature.  It is                                                              
her seventh year, and she has found no sympathy for any agriculture                                                             
issues.  This bill is to protect agriculture for its future.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1196                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN stated his intention to work on this over the                                                                     
interim.  As a public comment had reminded him, this is the time                                                                
when farmers are getting ready to plant.  He suggested focusing on                                                              
this after harvest, but perhaps meeting about it during the summer.                                                             
[HB 116 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 104 - ENTRY MORATORIA ON PARTICIPANTS/VESSELS                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1036                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN announced that the final item of business would be                                                                
House Bill No. 104, "An Act revising the procedures and authority                                                               
of the Alaska Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission, the Board of                                                               
Fisheries, and the Department of Fish and Game to establish a                                                                   
moratorium on participants or vessels, or both, participating in                                                                
certain fisheries; and providing for an effective date."  The bill                                                              
had been heard previously. [Before the committee was CSHB
104(FSH).]                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0996                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BRENNON EAGLE testified via teleconference from Wrangell.  Noting                                                               
that he has testified in support of this legislation over the past                                                              
couple of years, he emphasized the importance of giving this power                                                              
to the Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission (CFEC).  He has been                                                               
through a convoluted entry process with the Southeast pot shrimp                                                                
fishery, he advised members, which ended up with quite a few more                                                               
people in the fishery than had historically participated, because                                                               
the CFEC had to announce limited entry for the fishery prior to                                                                 
closing it.  Anyone who participated during that small window of                                                                
time was eventually allowed into the fishery, he noted, although                                                                
since limited entry, those people have not participated.  He                                                                    
believes the CFEC has been stuck with a poor process, which the                                                                 
power to do a moratorium would have alleviated.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. EAGLE noted that this allows the CFEC to choose different                                                                   
dates, which he believes is a very good addition.  However, he                                                                  
believes it would be a poor decision to disallow transferability of                                                             
permits.  He explained, "I make my living by fishing, and not                                                                   
allowing me to enter a fishery after it's been limited would                                                                    
greatly restrict how I could run my business; and I don't think it                                                              
would be beneficial to the commercial fishermen in the state of                                                                 
Alaska, or to the other people that depend on us, as support                                                                    
industry."  Mr. Eagle urged passage of HB 101.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0848                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RAY CAMPBELL testified via teleconference from Ketchikan.                                                                       
Referring to previous hearings, he said there is an impression that                                                             
this bill is directed at Bering Sea scallop and Korean hair crab                                                                
fisheries.  However, in looking at files, especially for the Korean                                                             
hair crab fishery, it seems that the majority of permits in 1998                                                                
were held by nonresidents, on the gear license.  On the vessel                                                                  
license, it appears that although many declare themselves                                                                       
residents, the vessel owners' addresses are out of state.  He                                                                   
expressed hope that a CFEC representative could explain that.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL said he had asked previously how many other fisheries                                                              
have been requested to be placed under this moratorium; he would                                                                
like an answer to that, as well.  He referred to the question of                                                                
transferability of moratorium permits in the Southeast dive                                                                     
fishery.  He told members that in looking at the transfers, it                                                                  
appears there is a tendency for medical transfers to go from                                                                    
residents to nonresidents; he suggested that committee members get                                                              
numbers from the CFEC regarding that.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0643                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN noted that Liz Cabrera had provided a synopsis, dated                                                             
April 20, 1999, of changes to the current moratorium statute under                                                              
CSHB 104(FSH).  He asked her to explain what is being repealed.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0567                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LIZ CABRERA, Researcher for Representative Bill Hudson [sponsor]                                                                
and Committee Aide, House Special Committee on Fisheries, Alaska                                                                
State Legislature, mentioned that the memorandum was in response to                                                             
Co-Chair Ogan's request regarding the repealed section.  The                                                                    
synopsis goes through the entire bill, she indicated, showing the                                                               
affected statutes and the applicable bill sections.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0443                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN asked Ms. McDowell whether any permits under                                                                      
moratoriums would be transferable.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MARY McDOWELL, Commissioner, Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission,                                                             
Alaska Department of Fish and Game, answered that permits issued                                                                
under a moratorium are temporary permits for the length of the                                                                  
moratorium.  The only transferability is if somebody has already,                                                               
in a given year, demonstrated intent and ability to fish that year,                                                             
has renewed the interim use permit for the year, and then has some                                                              
medical condition occur, such as a broken leg.  Then that person                                                                
can apply for an "emergency transfer of their ability to fish" for                                                              
that one year.  The process requires filling out an application for                                                             
emergency transfer, which comes to the CFEC, as well as submittal                                                               
of forms from doctors, and so forth.  Those are the only transfers                                                              
allowed for a moratorium permit.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0334                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN stated his understanding that this bill is a                                                                      
departure from previous legislation:  It not only establishes a                                                                 
moratorium on use permits but also creates a vessel permit system.                                                              
He asked Ms. McDowell to explain that.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. McDOWELL explained that HB 104 doesn't create a vessel                                                                      
limitation program, but it allows a moratorium to be put on entry                                                               
of new vessels into a fishery.  Another piece of legislation speaks                                                             
to the issue of creating vessel permits, she noted.  This bill, HB
104, allows this process to be used in the same way that the                                                                    
legislature, in the last few years, has enacted vessel moratoriums                                                              
on the scallop and hair crab fisheries.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. McDOWELL pointed out that a vessel moratorium would only be                                                                 
used in a fishery where a moratorium on participants doesn't work.                                                              
For example, in the scallop and hair crab fisheries, vessels tend                                                               
to be large and to fish the outside waters; the vessels are often                                                               
owned by someone who hires skippers, and there may be several                                                                   
skippers throughout a year.  In that case, the legislature chose to                                                             
limit the number of vessels, to avoid multiplying the number of                                                                 
vessels by giving a license to each skipper.  In some fisheries,                                                                
that system better gets to the purposes of the Limited Entry Act,                                                               
which are conservation of the resource and avoidance of economic                                                                
distress in the fishery.  This moratorium bill would give the CFEC                                                              
the ability to implement a moratorium on participants or vessels,                                                               
or both, to get a lid on that fishery during the moratorium, while                                                              
the CFEC assesses the situation and decides about a course for the                                                              
future.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0103                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN referred to page 3, line 24, which says, "A permit                                                                
issued under this section is a use privilege that may be modified                                                               
or revoked by law without compensation."  He asked Ms. McDowell to                                                              
address that issue, as it relates to other limited entry permits.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. McDOWELL said her understanding is that it just repeats what is                                                             
under the law now for limited entry permits.  The legislature had                                                               
reserved to itself the ability to alter it, without compensation,                                                               
at any time.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN asked whether Ms. McDowell considers it a property                                                                
right.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. McDOWELL responded that it is not, under law, considered a                                                                  
property right; it is considered a use privilege.  She briefly                                                                  
discussed the repealer sections, noting that Sections 8, 9 and 10                                                               
simply adjust the sunset dates on the existing hair crab and                                                                    
scallop moratoriums, depending on whether the CFEC [testimony cut                                                               
off by change of tape].                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-28, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. McDOWELL said [Section 11] repeals the three sections in                                                                    
current law that are the old system of doing moratoriums, where                                                                 
someone petitions the commissioner of ADF&G, who then goes to the                                                               
board, which then goes comes back to the commissioner, who then                                                                 
comes to the CFEC.  It repeals those sections and replaces them                                                                 
with this new system.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0067                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN commented that this is an important issue, and he                                                                 
would like to deal with it when all members are present.  He                                                                    
announced that HB 104 would be held over.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0106                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:47 p.m.                                                                 

Document Name Date/Time Subjects